Interview with Retd. Supereme Court Judge K.T. THOMAS

Profile of Mr. K.T. Thomas:

He was born at Kottayam in Kerala in 1937. His primary education was at Kottayam - Baker Memorial School, CMS College High School and CMS College. He joined St. Alberts College, Cochin for his degree course He studied Law at Madras Law College He set up independent practice soon and acquired a very lucrative practice both on the civil side and criminal sides. A large number of junior advocates have worked in his chambers. In 1985, he was elevated as a Judge of the High Court of Kerala. He was appointed as Chief Justice (Acting) of the High Court of Kerala in 1995. He was appointed as a Judge of the Supreme Court of India in March 1996. He has been the judge of many high profile cases and also the member of many important commissions. In 2007 he was conferred the Padma Bhushan by the nation.

The interview was conducted on 27 July 2010 at Mr. K.T Thomas’s residence in Kottayam, Kerala. It was later published in the annual college magazine of Viswajyothi College of Engineering and Technology, named ‘ELIXIR OF LIFE’.

           

1Q) How would you describe your judicial life spread over a two and a half decades?

Judicial life was for a quarter of a century. 17 years, I was a practicing advocate. Both has got their separate excitements. I enjoyed both.

2Q) Which was more satisfying- as a judge or as an advocate?

That is a very difficult question because both have got different ways of service to the society. As an advocate, I was able to help a lot and also it was a part of my income. As a judge all decisions were…(sic)

3Q) When you graduated there were a lot of professions which you could take up. What motivated you to take up law?

I was very active in politics. In my college (St Alberts) I was the college chairman. Not campus politics. I was the only representative from Kerala in the first youth camp conducted by Jawaharlal Nehru in New Delhi. My politics was very active. So I thought to continue in politics, a law degree would be of greater help. Principally what motivated me to join law was politics. But I could not continue in politics.

4Q) When you look back do you regret that you are still not in politics?

Would have been very difficult for me to be in politics because I could not reconcile with a practical politician. Temperamentally, I am not able to. I left once and for all because of Indira Gandhi’s dictatorial tendencies which destroyed the Indian national congress. Thereafter, I could not convince myself to stay in politics.

5Q) How were your college days?

I mostly studied in CMS college. Thereafter I went to St. Albert’s college. Then I went to madras law college. Each stage of my life had my own days of enjoyment and my own days of pain also. I did not get into any romantic affairs. Not that it is bad, but it so happened.

6Q) Since your time, campus politics has changed rapidly. So in the present scenario what is its relevance?

Campus politics has a no plus point, only minus point. I am yet to come across a single plus point. Even without campus politics in our time we had great political discussions, mocks parliament etc. Our political awareness and political knowledge during that time is far greater than that commanded by even those leaders of campus politics of today. I can even take a bet for that.

7Q) Then how do we air our rights?

You have a students union in your college. You can organize many many activities. Why should you be a handle of political parties. Almost all political parties are highly corrupt and they want their unit to be established in the lowest level .so for that purpose they have corrupted our local bodies by creating political parties to conduct elections in the local bodies like municipalities and panchayats. Local body should have been all free from politics. They corrupted our cooperative societies. There also they have conducted elections and all. The top leaders of political parties want a cheap way to establish their units and that is the reason why they want their units in all colleges and campuses. For their end finally. For them to reach easy power they want to utilize youngsters in colleges. You can be in politics while you are in college. But college campus is not necessary for that. Campus politics is not necessary for that. It is open to the management not to allow campus politics in their college. So it is for the college management to decide whether to allow campus politics or not.

8Q) What is your opinion on ragging?

Ragging when it started, it was a good adventure of the students. But it never created any injuries to the ragged student. It was an exuberance. The senior students did ragging to make the junior students to feel themselves at home in the college. But it’s a good lesson that in young age that freedom should not be given to immature minds because that freedom has grown into monstrous dimensions and ragging became a tool in the hands of reckless persons to enjoy greater sadism. It had become a nightmare. Naturally the society had to rise up and prohibit it. The situation has so become that ragging has to be put down with a firm iron hand.  No student community will switch back to the original level in which ragging was done in a very pleasant manner.

9Q) Any instances or your ragging

 It was pillowing and ducking. it was for a day. We used to beat them with pillows and then take them to a pond a do ducking. Even the juniors used to enjoy that.

10Q) What is your opinion on the Contempt of court?

It’s all political parties. The court had declared that bandh or hartal are unconstitutional. This is the opinion of the high court that should be followed up by passing a law. But the legislature is not passing any law declaring bandh or hartal illegal. Court is expressing a view which should be followed up by legislation. But they are not doing it.

11Q) Are there some measures by which the court’s voice can be heard?

Nothing can be done. People’s representatives have to pass the law. If they don’t pass the law, mere expression of opinion of the high court wont be enough.

12Q) What about the backlog of cases? Justice delayed is justice denied.

Increase the number of courts. That’s the only solution. See, if the judges are not working, if they are all sleeping, then I can accuse the judges. But the judges are working very hard from morning to evening. They are all human beings. The number of cases are increasing, so naturally more infrastructure is needed to meet it. You cannot ask the judge to give up his sleep and then work. Two days he will may, but thereafter he will be in the hospital.

13Q) Recently there have been many infamous cases in which the media does the trial, they take the public opinion etc. How much does it influence a judge?

There are two aspects. First we must be grateful to the media for bringing out many many cases which would have gone unnoticed or buried by the powers that be. It could be political power money power, muscle power or mafia power. The other aspect is that the media will highlight their opinion as to whether a person is guilty or not. But their machinery to know whether a person is guilty or not is far from satisfactory. But they are creating such a large amount of publicity that it can create a prejudice against a person. Naturally it will have an impact on the minds of human beings would read it, unless the judges decide that hereafter we will not read newspapers. It is very great process to extricate themselves from the media’s opinion. The judge will become very unpopular if the judgment is contrary to the opinion given by the media. Some judges have very correctly judged, contrary to the impression created by the media. With what result? Justice is paid but he becomes very unpopular. So this is the other side.

14Q) Sir we just had the Bhopal gas tragedy judgement. In your opinion do you think it is justice to those people?

Certainly not. Bhopal gas tragedy is tragedy not only in the bad industrial management, but also on the political and judicial side. On all the three fronts there is a lamentable failure. It was probably the greatest tragedy that India faced after independence. Natural calamities were understandable. But because of a factory in a city human beings were simply dying.

15Q)Do you thing the law has to be made stricter to make people more accountable.

After the Bhopal gas tragedy the factory law has become very very stringent. Fortunately after Bhopal we have not come across any other such tragedy.

16Q) The Rajiv Gandhi assassination was a very high profile case, a verdict that the nation awaited for. How was your experience?

I had the occasion to hear a large number of cases, including certain number of high profile cases. Rajiv Gandhi case was very sensational since it involved the assassination of the former prime minister. It was a well planned assassination. The arguments went on for nearly four months in the supreme court. 26 persons were convicted and sentenced to be hanged in the Rajiv Gandhi case. The largest number of death sentences were passed in this case, in the history of India. I pronounced my judgement within 3 weeks after the arguments were heard, which was a record. And we restricted our conviction to seven persons, out of which four were sentenced to life imprisonment and three were sentenced to hanging. One sentence was passed on the lady called Nalini. I did not agree with it, I gave her only life imprisonment but the majority prevailed. Later on the basis of the reasoning I gave, her sentence was commuted to life imprisonment.

17Q) What is your view on the death sentence?

I feel that the death sentence is barbarous, primitive and no punishment at all. It is a painful act done by the society against a person and protected by law. If I commit a murder I will be prosecuted, when judiciary commit a murder they are protected by law. How should I punish? The same manner I will punish my children. And why should I punish my children- to make them better citizens. Every punishment should have that objective. If you are giving the capital punishment, the punished person is finished. The argument that such a punishment will inculcate a fear in the minds of others is not true. Same fear will be created by a lighter punishment also. By giving capital punishment a greater fear will be created is not a true fact after studies were made. We have researched on it.

18Q) Do you think that our punishments are lenient when compared to other countries?

Indian court punishments are quite sufficient. You cannot say that the guilty are not punished. Laws are capable of dealing with the offenders. The legislation has increased to such an extent that the escape of criminals is greatly difficult. But the publicity is otherwise.

19Q) Do you think religious is a weapon that can divide people?

No. Good religion means it will only bring people together. If we approach religion in the proper perspective, religion is very good for humanity. But religion is vulnerable to be misused because it is only religious leaders who can creates a feeling in the people that your religion is the best of all and all other religions are wrong. Then comes the friction. All those who want power and money, they will utilize what is more vulnerable. Religion is found to be more easy to be handled and they will rely on that.

20Q) Do you think that corruption is an issue in the judiciary.

NO. Not in judiciary. For e.g. in the Kerala high court there is not even one instance of corruption. In the subordinate courts, you may say that it would be an exaggeration to say it’s 100% honest, but I put it at 97%. But that does not mean that any bad judgements are not committed. Human beings after all. In Kerala the judiciary is the only department in which is not corrupt.  But it may not be the case in other states.

21Q) Do innocents get punished?

The criminal system is to prevent an innocent getting convicted. All the care is taken to see that innocents are not caught. But mistakes can be made. Even in my case, one of my most memorable case is the panun soman case. I narrowly escaped from committing the greatest mistake in my judicial career. Because of the evidence presented, I would have sentenced six policemen for murder when it was clearly a case of suicide. Thereafter, it created a fear in my mind.

22Q) How is your Retirement life?

Initially I did not like to accept any post retirement assignment. I was asked to join the human right commission , but it would take away 5 years of my retirement life, so I denied. Then came other offers which involved shifting to Delhi. But I accepted other challenging works which did not involve the shifting of residence, because I wanted to settle down at one place. So I first accepted the assignment of fixing the fees of private unaided professional college and was chairman of the committee to oversee the transparency of admission to these colleges. I worked on one condition that I will not accept any salary for that. I was also the chairman of the Police accountability and performance committee in Kerala.

23Q) The nation honoured you with Padma Bhushan in 2007. Did life change after that?

Padma Bhushan came like that. I accepted it. It was a great honour conferred on the nation on me.

24Q) What are your other interests?

I like to read novels, biographies, books on religion etc.

25Q) Are you a religious person?

By habit. I have my own conviction, theology or philosophy of my own, but I do not want it to be discussed in public because it will involve a lot of difficulties for my family, for my society etc. Religion is not my avocation of life, therefore I don’t publicize my views on religion. I wish to treat God as a father. But then many things are unexplainable to me. Can we call God the most merciful, why god is so passive, you cannot measure God etc.

26Q) Is HE just? Some people are born poor while others are born rich.

Wealth is not a criterion for happiness. It is false teaching by religious leaders. They teach that you do good work to the society so that God will bless you. Like a future investment for wealth. I have seen many people who do good work suffering, while many cutthroats enjoying the life in the material way.  Gandhiji taught me that you do good work not with the expectation that you will get reward but as a good citizen, as a duty. So if u do good work in that spirit, you will never be disappointed. Good work is the hallmark of a good citizen.

27Q) Any advice to our readers?

All that is said was one way or the other advices.  Never agree for anything which is untrue. India needs a new generation where they will not compromise with untruth. Falsehood, or may I call it terminological inexactitude, may be justified to save a great just cause and when the truth would be unwise in that situation.